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Kashmiri Lamb Rogan Josh is one of the most well known Indian curries in the world. It certainly is here, in the UK. Unfortunately though, the genuine article is not easy to find in British restaurants and impossible in our takeaways. But more of that later.
Estimated reading time: 14 minutes
Table of contents
- What is Rogan Josh?
- What does Rogan Josh mean?
- Kashmiri Wazwan
- Kashmiri Lamb Rogan Josh Recipe
- LinsFood’s Rogan Josh
- Meat in Rogan Josh
- What cut of Meat?
- Ratan Jot and Mawal in Rogan Josh
- Can’t get Ratan Jot or Mawal?
- Spices in Rogan Josh
- What Fat to use in Rogan Josh?
- How to Serve Rogan Josh
- Can You Make Rogan Josh Ahead of Time?
- FAQs
What is Rogan Josh?
Before we move on, I suggest you grab a cup of java, and head on over to the Kashmiri Cuisine page to read up on Kashmiri food culture and Kashmiri history. It’ll give you a better grasp of the cuisine, enlighten your mind and whet your appetite.
Rogan Josh is an aromatic, mildly spicy Kashmiri curry, with a hint of sweetness and that characteristic deep reddish colour. Traditionally associated with mutton, it’s one of the stars of the grand Kashmiri feasts known as Wazwan. Lamb and goat are also used, although mutton remains the meat of choice for many in traditional Kashmiri cooking.
An authentic Kashmiri Lamb Rogan Josh, is in itself a bit of a misnomer. This is because there are basically 2 types of Rogan Josh: the Kashmiri Muslim version and the Kashmiri Pandit (Hindu) version.
There are a few marked differences between the two traditional recipes. I stress the word traditional, because over time, these variations have overlapped each other and have taken on the odd ingredient and style of cooking.
On top of that, each chef, or waza (as they are called), would also have his own little take on the traditional recipe. The following are just some of the general differences between the 2 styles of cooking, not just in today’s rogan josh, but in the other recipes shared by the two communities.
Kashmiri Muslim cooking generally uses onions and garlic, while traditional Kashmiri Pandit cooking avoids both, often using asafoetida instead.
There are differences in the colouring ingredients, too. Muslim cooks traditionally favour mawal, or cockscomb flower, while ratan jot has been associated with Pandit cooking.
These are general distinctions, of course, not rules set in stone. As I’ve already mentioned, there’s been plenty of borrowing between the two traditions over the years.
What does Rogan Josh mean?
The Kashmiri lamb rogan josh is definitely a Moghul legacy; after all, the name is in Farsi, the Persian language.
- Rogan simply means oil
- Josh can mean any number of things, ranging from heat, fiery, passion and also, the spots on your face!
So …
- boiling oil stew?
- red stew?
Take your pick, no one can quite agree on the actual literal translation of the recipe name itself. The bottom line is, it’s a curry, or an Indian stew, if you like, which is what curries are, when you think about it.
Kashmiri Wazwan
The wazwan is a multi course meal unlike anything you’ve ever come across! Dish after dish after dish, and mainly of meat, but served and flavoured differently.
The grandest of these will be the Royal Wazwan that is made up of 36 courses! Can you imagine that – not just the splendour, but actually eating all those dishes, most of which will be of mutton, including today’s rogan josh.
Suffice it to say, the actual wazwan, whether it only had 12 courses, or 24, or the Royal 36, would be a magnificent, opulent feast, a ceremony that has many parts to it.
In 2017, the Jammu and Kashmir government even introduced restrictions on the number of dishes served at weddings and other celebrations, partly to reduce food wastage. The limit was seven meat dishes and seven vegetarian dishes. However, the order was subsequently challenged in court and was quashed by the Jammu and Kashmir High Court in November 2023.
You can read up more on this as well as get more information on Kashmiri cuisine and its history over at the Kashmiri Page.
Kashmiri Lamb Rogan Josh Recipe
So we’ve already ascertained that there isn’t 1 original recipe. However, one thing is for certain. Now repeat after me:
There are no tomatoes in Rogan Josh!
Only in crappy restaurants and takeaways.
Any self respecting Kashmiri cook would never, ever, put tomatoes in his or her rogan josh. And neither should you!
Because of the mawal, ratan jot and kashmiri chillies, the true kashmiri rogan josh has a deep red colour. Many people outside of Kashmir achieve this colour with kashmiri chillies and tomatoes or tomato purée. Which changes the flavour, and really, can only be called a cheat’s rogan josh. Which it doesn’t have to be, whether you can get the red colouring or not. Let’s read on, shall we?
LinsFood’s Rogan Josh
Let’s talk about the recipe here, the one that I’ve been making for years. The foundation is the Kashmiri Muslim recipe I learnt in the 90s. But I’ve added components of Pandit style as well over the years.
I absolutely loved Lalitha’s use of fennel seeds in her recipe (from her family chef), and have incorporated it into the final stage of the recipe. Lalitha gave classes in my cooking school (out of my kitchen). I’m assuming here that you’ve read the detailed article on Kashmiri Cuisine here. If not, she taught mainly the Pandit style of cooking.
Apparently, many Kashmiri Muslims do not sauté their aromatics, nor do they brown their meat first. However, Mrs Ghulam (my Kashmiri teacher) always did it, and so, I do too.
You can read more about the ladies I mention above on the Kashmiri Cuisine page.
Meat in Rogan Josh
As mentioned somewhere above, traditionally, mutton has been the meat of choice for Rogan Josh, although goat is also eaten in Kashmir. I’ve always used lamb because I’m not particularly fond of mutton, and here in the UK, lamb is much easier to find anyway.
Rogan josh is also sometimes made with chicken, you might like to know.
So use lamb if you like, or mutton if you prefer.
What cut of Meat?
Leg of lamb is always good for curries and stews, as is shoulder. If you buy your meat from a butcher, get him to chop it up into large cubic pieces, as meat always shrinks upon cooking. But make sure that you take the bone too. Always add bone to your stews, soups and curries, for a dish with better flavour and depth.
If you buy ready cubed meat, then drop in a lamb chop or two, if you like, the ones off a rack.
In these pictures, I am using lamb shanks. I love shanks, and because they are very impressive and elegant when served whole, I’ve left them so for the pictures.
This is also what I do when I’m cooking for more upmarket clientele, which made up the majority of my old catering work. Each diner gets a whole lamb shank with rice and naan.
However, when I’m cooking for my friends and meat eating family, I let the shanks fall apart, and pull the meat off the bone, before serving. So one shank will serve 2, even 3 people, depending on the size. Of the shanks and the people! Am I allowed to say that last bit in this day and age? 🤔
Ratan Jot and Mawal in Rogan Josh
Both ratan jot and mawal have traditionally been used to give Kashmiri Rogan Josh its characteristic deep red colour. They work differently, though, and belong to slightly different cooking traditions.
Ratan Jot
Ratan jot is the name given to certain plant roots used to colour food, particularly in Kashmiri cooking. It’s traditionally associated with Kashmiri Pandit recipes, and the colour is extracted by briefly heating the root in oil or ghee, which turns a beautiful deep red.
There’s one thing to be aware of, however. Several different plants are sold under the name ratan jot, and some contain potentially harmful compounds called pyrrolizidine alkaloids.
So it’s important to establish exactly what you’re buying, rather than assuming that anything labelled ratan jot is suitable for cooking. I’ve written more about its history, uses and safety in my ratan jot article.
Mawal (Cockscomb Flower)
Mawal is the dried flower of the cockscomb plant, Celosia argentea var. cristata, and is more commonly associated with Kashmiri Muslim cooking. Unlike ratan jot, its colour is extracted in hot water, which is then added to the curry.
It’s an interesting ingredient, and rather beautiful too, if you ask me. You can read more about it, including how to use it, in my mawal article.
Can’t get Ratan Jot or Mawal?
If you want the proper tasting rogan josh, whatever you do, do not substitute it with tomatoes.
Not that rogan josh with tomatoes is not yummy, mind you, just not the genuine article, which is what this recipe post is all about.
I think Rick Stein (a chef I enjoy watching) suggests going down the beetroot erm, route. While it certainly seems like a good idea as far as the colour goes, beetroot has a rather strong, earthy flavour, doesn’t it? Which your rogan josh will end up having, right? Beetroot rogan josh, anyone?
Let’s just ask ourselves a question. Why must we make our rogan josh red when neither ratan jot nor mawal actually contribute in terms of flavour?
So what do we do? Cook the curry as per the recipe here and leave the colour concerns at the kitchen door. It’s the taste that we want, isn’t it?
If you like your curries on the spicy side (who doesn’t?), then you can definitely increase the Kashmiri chilli powder, which will give you a redder curry. But not too much, as too much of any chilli powder will make your recipe bitter.
Spices in Rogan Josh
This varies from home to home, waza to waza, and of course, whether it’s the Pandit rogan josh or the Muslim version, even if that line isn’t the clearest anymore. These are the spices commonly used (though not all at once!):
- black cardamom (badi elaichi) – image above, read more below
- green cardamom (choti elaichi)
- cinnamon (dalchini)
- cloves (laung)
- cumin (jeera)
- coriander (dhaniya)
- Kashmiri chilli powder (Kashmiri lal mirch powder, really, that last bit)
- ground ginger (adarak)
- fennel (saunf)
- black peppercorns (kali mirch)
- saffron (kesar/zaffran)
- asafoetida (hing) – often used in Indian cooking to provide some of the pungent, savoury notes of onion and garlic, particularly in recipes that omit both.
Black Cardamom
Unlike the smaller, sweeter green cardamoms, black cardamoms are not shy. They have a commanding presence, with a smoky and woody aroma because they are dried on an open fire.
Amomum subulatum, the black cardamom is also known as the Nepal cardamom and Bengal cardamom. I’ll do a full article on it soon!
Kashmiri Chilli Powder
Kashmiri chilli powder is ground, dried, red kashmiri chillies. Kashmiri chillies are all about colour and flavour, not heat. Read more here.
Kashmiri chillies are generally mild, often quoted at around 1,000-2,000 Scoville units, and prized for the gorgeous red colour they bring to a dish. If you can’t find Kashmiri chilli powder, use the mildest red chilli powder you can get, or a little mild paprika for colour.
Unfortunately, not everything sold as Kashmiri chilli powder is the same. Some brands are considerably hotter than others, so if you’re using one for the first time, I’d suggest starting with less and adjusting as necessary. Two tablespoons of a very hot chilli powder could make for a rather memorable Rogan Josh, and not necessarily in a good way!
And to my American readers: when I say chilli powder, I mean pure ground dried chillies, not the American chilli powder blends that often contain cumin, oregano and other spices. Cayenne powder is also made from dried chillies, but it’s much hotter, so please don’t use it as a direct substitute.
What Fat to use in Rogan Josh?
Ghee is the fat of choice, especially for the Kashmiri Muslims, while mustard oil and/or vegetable oil is the Pandits’ traditional choice.
I must confess that I love ghee, and I love mustard oil. Over the years, I’ve used them interchangeably in Indian recipes and even in the Kashmiri Rogan Josh. I shall leave this one up to you.
The use of mustard oil does raise some concerns, as certain varieties contain high levels of erucic acid, which may affect heart health. In the UK, you’ll find some mustard oils labelled ‘for external use only’, and these should not be used for cooking.
Make sure you’re buying an oil specifically sold as suitable for food use. I prefer a blend of mustard and rapeseed oil, which gives me that lovely mustard flavour without having to use traditional high-erucic-acid mustard oil.
How to Serve Rogan Josh
Traditionally, Rogan Josh is served with rice, particularly as part of a Kashmiri Wazwan feast, where it accompanies several other meat dishes, with yoghurt and chutneys served on the side.
At home, a plate of plain steamed basmati rice is really all you need to enjoy that wonderfully aromatic gravy. You could also serve it with some Kashmiri haak (leafy greens) for a little contrast.
And if you’re partial to naan, by all means have some. It may not be the traditional Kashmiri accompaniment, but it’s certainly very good for mopping up every last drop of that lovely sauce.
Can You Make Rogan Josh Ahead of Time?
Absolutely, and I’d encourage it! Rogan Josh is one of those curries that tastes even better the following day, when the spices have had time to settle and mingle. It’s a great dish to prepare ahead of time, especially if you’re cooking for guests.
Allow the curry to cool, refrigerate within 2 hours and keep in the fridge for up to 2 days. It also freezes beautifully for up to 3 months, so you could easily make a double batch and save half for another day.
To reheat, place the curry in a saucepan over low heat, adding a splash of water if the gravy has thickened. Heat gently until piping hot throughout, stirring occasionally. Only reheat leftovers once.
FAQs
Yes, you can, and it’s a particularly good option if you’re using lamb shanks. Follow the recipe until the curry is ready to simmer, then transfer everything to an ovenproof casserole dish with a lid, if you’re not already using one.
Cover and cook at 180°C (160°C fan)/350°F for approximately 2½-3 hours, until the lamb is beautifully tender. Check occasionally to make sure the gravy isn’t drying out, adding a little water if necessary. Smaller pieces of meat will cook more quickly, so start checking earlier.
Once the lamb is cooked, finish with the ginger and fennel oil, and whichever colouring method you’re using, as described in the recipe.
Of course. Lamb shoulder and leg are both good choices, although I do prefer meat on the bone for the extra flavour it gives the gravy.
If you’re using boneless lamb, cut it into fairly large chunks, around 4-5 cm, as the meat will shrink during cooking. Start checking for tenderness after about an hour, although shoulder may need longer. There’s no need to cook it for the full 2 hours if it’s already tender.
Don’t panic, and certainly don’t throw the curry away! The yoghurt may look a little grainy, but it won’t ruin the flavour of your Rogan Josh.
To minimise the chances of curdling, use full-fat yoghurt, preferably at room temperature, and add it gradually while stirring constantly. Make sure the liquid isn’t boiling when you add it.
You can also temper the yoghurt first by stirring a few spoonfuls of the warm gravy into it before adding it to the saucepan.
Yes, and I think it’s even better the next day, once all those lovely spices have had time to mingle.
It’s an ideal curry to make ahead, particularly if you’re entertaining. I’ve covered refrigeration, freezing and reheating in the Can You Make Rogan Josh Ahead of Time? section above.
Ok then, I think I may have just exhausted the topic. And myself. If you have any questions, just leave me a comment below. And if you are a Kashmiri, and have something to add, I would very much love to hear it.
Shall we get our aprons on?
If you like the recipe, don’t forget to leave me a comment and that all important, 5-star rating! Thank you!
And if you make the recipe, share it on any platform and tag me @azlinbloor, and hashtag it #linsfood
Lin xx
Kashmiri Lamb Rogan Josh Recipe and Video (with Ratan Jot)
Ingredients
Aromatics
- 1 large onion
- 2.5 cm ginger (or ½ Tbsp ginger-garlic paste)
- 2 garlic cloves (or ½ Tbsp ginger-garlic paste, so a TOTAL of 1 because of the ginger above)
Spices
- 2 black cardamoms lightly crushed, to release their aroma
- 1 large cinnamon stick
- ½ tsp black peppercorns
- 2 Tbsp Kashmiri chilli powder
- 1 tsp ground ginger
- ½ tsp ground coriander
To Finish (no ratan jot or mawal? Skip them, and just finish with the rest)
- 1 small square sheet of muslin (for ratan jot, if using)
- 2 Tbsp ratan jot pieces please read safety advice in article and below
- 1 mawal (cockscomb) flower (optional, for culinary use, instead of ratan jot)
- 5 cm ginger
- ½ tsp fennel seeds
- 2 Tbsp ghee or vegetable oil
Everything Else
- 2-3 Tbsp ghee (or vegetable oil)
- 2 lamb shanks (or meat on the bone, weighing 1 kg)
- 1 tsp salt
- 125 ml yoghurt
- 500 ml water
Garnish (optional)
- 1 handful fresh coriander leaves, chopped
Instructions
Prep Work
The Aromatics
- Chop up the onion fairly finely and set aside.1 large onion
- Pound (or use a chopper) the ginger and garlic to get a small amount of paste. Add a little water as necessary. You shouldn't need water if using a pestle and mortar. Or use a shop bought paste.2.5 cm ginger, 2 garlic cloves
The Spices
- Measure out all your spices, whole and ground and set them aside. Don't forget to lightly pound your black cardamoms, to help them release their aroma.2 black cardamoms, 1 large cinnamon stick, ½ tsp black peppercorns, 2 Tbsp Kashmiri chilli powder, 1 tsp ground ginger, ½ tsp ground coriander
The Finish
- Measure out the ratan jot or mawal, depending on which you're using.2 Tbsp ratan jot pieces, 1 mawal (cockscomb) flower
- If using ratan jot, place the pieces in the centre of a small square of muslin and tie into a little bundle. If you don't have muslin, don't worry, we'll strain the coloured ghee instead.If using mawal, set the flower aside. We'll extract its colour in water towards the end of cooking.1 small square sheet of muslin
- Slice the ginger into matchstick slices and set aside the fennel seeds.5 cm ginger, ½ tsp fennel seeds
Let's Get Cooking
- Heat 2 Tbsp of ghee in a large saucepan on medium heat.2-3 Tbsp ghee
- Brown the lamb shanks all over. This will take about 5 minutes, and your kitchen is going to smoke. Open the windows, turn on your extractor, and mind that smoke alarm!2 lamb shanks
- Take the lamb shanks out, place on a plate and set aside until needed.
- In the same pot, fry the black cardamoms, cinnamon stick and black peppercorns for 30 seconds on medium heat. Add another tablespoon of ghee if the saucepan is dry.2 black cardamoms, 1 large cinnamon stick, ½ tsp black peppercorns
- Tip in the onions and fry for 2 minutes on medium-low heat.
- Add the ginger-garlic paste and fry for 30 seconds.
- Add the lamb shanks back into the saucepan, along with any juices on the plate (bloody or not). Add the Kashmiri chilli powder, ground ginger, ground coriander and salt, then stir a little to coat the meat. Still on medium-low heat.2 Tbsp Kashmiri chilli powder, 1 tsp ground ginger, ½ tsp ground coriander, 1 tsp salt
- On the same heat, add 400 ml of water if you're using mawal, or the full 500 ml if you're using ratan jot or neither. Before the water starts to boil, slowly add the yoghurt, stirring constantly.I've found that the best way to prevent the yoghurt from curdling is to add a dollop (about 1 Tbsp), stir, another dollop, stir, until it's all in. If it curdles, don't worry, your curry will still be delicious.500 ml water
- Bring to a simmer, increasing the heat to medium if you're too impatient to wait for it to heat up. Then cover with a lid, reduce the heat right down and cook on this very low heat for 1½-2 hours, until your meat is beautifully tender.
- By the end of cooking, the meat should be almost falling off the bone, and the gravy should be rich and aromatic, but still fairly loose. We’re not looking for the thick, tomato-based sauce you get in so many British curry houses. If the gravy has reduced too much, just add a splash of water.
Final Step
- If using mawal: Bring the reserved 100 ml water to a simmer in a small saucepan. Add the mawal and simmer for 1 minute, just long enough to extract its beautiful red colour. Don't leave it too long, or the colour will start turning brown. Strain the coloured water into your Rogan Josh, discarding the flower. Stir gently and simmer for another 2 minutes.If you're not using mawal, skip this step.
- Heat the 2 Tbsp of ghee in a small frying pan over medium-low heat.1 small square sheet of muslin, 2 Tbsp ghee, 2 Tbsp ratan jot pieces
- If using ratan jot: Add the prepared muslin pouch to the hot ghee and swirl it around for a minute or two, until the ghee takes on that beautiful deep red colour. Remove the pouch, gently pressing it between two spoons to release the coloured ghee, then discard it.No muslin? Heat the ratan jot pieces directly in the ghee, then strain through a metal sieve into a heatproof container. Return the coloured ghee to the pan, discarding the roots.If you're not using ratan jot, skip this step.
- Add the ginger matchsticks and fennel seeds to the hot ghee, whether coloured or not, and fry for about 30 seconds, just long enough to release their aroma. Don't let the ginger burn.
- Pour the hot, fragrant ghee all over your Rogan Josh and give everything a gentle stir. Turn off the heat and leave to rest for 5 minutes before serving. Finish with a little fresh coriander, if you like.2 Tbsp ghee
Notes
Nutrition
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Minor correction: Fennel is called saunf. Sonth is dry ginger powder, also used in rogan josh.
Hi Tabish, I do have it written as saunf. Have done a thorough search for sonth, and yours was the only one that showed up. And yes, it is also used in rogan josh, as in the recipe here.
I came to remark the same “fennel (saunth)” should read “fennel (saunf)”. Also another way to not let yoghurt break is to add spoonfuls of the hot/warm josh to the yoghurt and mixing it in to temper it and then adding everything back into the josh.
Hi Acino, thanks for your input. Pronunciations are relative, so both spellings are correct and used widely.
I have been using this recipe for a few years now. I make it with regular goat meat and use Ratan Jot from Amazon (US). The curry stands out is how delicate it’s flavors are how light it’s to eat despite all the ghee :). It’s a favorite of my kids and friends love it every time we make it. I am 95% vegan now and this is top of the list for the 5% exceptions that I allow myself 🙂
Thanks Lin!!!
Hey Surajit, I got my morning masala chai, sat down to answer questions and comments as I do every morning and yours was the first one that greeted me. It was a great way to start my day. I’m so pleased to hear that you all love the recipe and thankful for that 5% non vegan part of you!
And I appreciate you taking the time to leave such a lovely comment.
ps: I make this with vegan chicken pieces for my vegetarian kids.
It never occurred to me that I could make this with vegan chicken. Will definitely give it a shot, Lin :). In fact this gives me a reason to try the pandit style (no ghee). Stay well and thanks again!
A well-rounded article and recipe. but if I want to make both versions of it, do I just not add onions and garlic to the recipe?
Thanks Amit. If you want to make 2 different Muslim and Pandit versions, my suggestion:
Muslim: don’t brown the meat or spices at the start. Place everything in a saucepan and let it come to a simmer. When the meat is cooked, you could stir in a tablespoon of ghee for added flavour. If you can get mawal, use mawal as the colouring agent. If not, go ahead with ratan jot. But if you can’t get either, I wouldn’t bother with using any food colouring.
Pandit: follow the recipe, as it is, but leave out the onion, garlic and ginger. Sprinkle a pinch of asofoetida when you add the lamb shanks back into the pot (step 7). Then finish off with vegetable oil (instead of ghee) tadka, comprising of just fennel seeds and ratan jot. Skip the ratan jot if you don’t have it.
I hope that helps.
Hello, where in the uk can I buy Ratan jot?
Hi Rik, I get it from Amazon. This is my affiliate link for it. Just click on it, and it’ll take you to Amazon.
I found this recipe last week and I’m keen to have a crack at it but I have quick question — my current burners are pretty aggressive on low heat and everything tends to catch in the center of the pot if it’s not constantly attended. Could I use a cast iron pot and transfer covered or cracked slightly to the oven after bringing to a simmer? Any thoughts on temperature?
Hi Kristen, treat it like a stew. So yes, to the cast iron pan and cooking in the oven. I would go for 180°C (Fan 160°C)/350°F. Cook it for 2 1/2 – 3 hours, until the lamb is done. If you are using smaller sized meats (no shanks), it’ll be done earlier.
Let me know how it goes.
This was amazing, Azlin! We love rogan josh but this was a bit of a revelation in terms of taste, and the recipe too. I loved everything in this article, it’s so detailed, thank you! Your rista recipe is next this weekend.
I’m so pleased to hear it, Emma. It’s amazing how we just get used to the nondescript stuff sold to us!
Thank you Azlin, big curry fan here, and looking forward to making this recipe. I learnt something new today, didn’t realise that rogan josh isn’t meant to have tomatoes.
A pleasure, Roy. Let me know how it goes.
We made this yesterday, Azlin, and it was one of the most delicious curries I have ever tasted in my whole life! I bought the ratan jot the same week you posted about it, and as soon as this came in my inbox yesterday morning I sent the hubby out to get the some lamb. Made it for dinner, just us 2, and having the leftover tonight. Thank you, I am looking forward to all the recipes in this series.
Mona xoxo
Mona, I am so pleased to hear that! Good to know you both enjoyed it fully, leftover curries, especially when they are good, are the best!
Alright! You know I got ratan jot from Amazon after that post. Going to get some lamb in this week and we will be in business! I’m so excited!
Alright, cue Pointer Sisters! Let me know how you get on!
Amazing recipe. Made this for my family in Norway. Thank you!
Can this be made with an other type of meat, for example chicken?
Hi Kristina, I’m so pleased to hear that! Yes, you can make it with any meat you like. Chicken rogan josh is pretty traditional too, and known as kukkur rogan josh. I’ve not got around to publishing that. You can use the exact same recipe for chicken.
I stand in awe! I love my curries, and have made rogan josh so many times, including Rick Stein’s, but after reading your article, I realised that I have never understood it.
I’m heading over to read up about those 2 ingredients and get some for myself. Next weekend, first attempt at the real thing.
Haha, that is very high praise, John! Thank you, I’m pleased that you appreciate the effort. Let me know what you think when you make this one.